Sunday, February 10, 2008

Not all who claim to be Christians are really Christians!

"Wow, you completely oversimplify everything. 'You either believe all the Bible (as inerrant) or you don't believe in the Bible'. Are you kidding me? You CAN believe in the Bible and still believe that it isn't inerrant. The Bible is the inspired word of God."

The above statement was sent to my comments section, I felt it was better served here in this post so that others could beware of false Christians who come in sheep's clothing. This person has been a thorn in the side for a while now. He claims he is a Christian and yet does not believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God. He believes it is possible for God to make a mistake. He feels it is possible that God chose the wrong people to write down His Word. He feels it is possible that God had His back turned while they were writing it. He feels it is possible that when the council came together to canonize the Bible, that maybe they made a mistake (again without God being in control). And yet, he still has the nerve to say that the Bible is the "inspired" word of God. God is not the author of confusion!

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction. Prov 1:7

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Prov 1:22

The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools. Prov 3:35

He that walketh with wise [men] shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed. Prov 13:20

Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous [there is] favour. Prov 14:9

[It is] better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools. Eccl 7:5

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Luke 24:25

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1:22

The Bible warns us to avoid foolish questions because they start arguments (2 Timothy 2:23). Most of us have fallen into the trap of jumping at every objection to the gospel. However, these questions can often be arguments in disguise to sidetrack you from the “weightier matters of the Law.” While apologetics (arguments for God’s existence, creation vs. evolution, etc.) are legitimate in evangelism, they should merely be “bait,” with the Law of God being the “hook” that brings the conviction of sin. Those who witness solely in the realm of apologetical argument may just get an intellectual decision rather than a repentant conversion. The sinner may come to a point of acknowledging that the Bible is the Word of God, and Jesus is Lord—but even the devil knows that.

We should always pull the sinner back to his responsibility before God on Judgment Day, as Jesus did in Luke 13:1–5. Whenever you are in an open-air situation, be wary of so-called Christians who are intent on distracting workers from witnessing. They argue about prophecy, of how much water one should baptize with, or in whose name they should be baptized. They argue about the use of the Law in witnessing to people, and they cry out, love! love! while all the while spewing out hatred. It is grievous to see five or six Christians standing around arguing with some sectarian nitpicker, while sinners are sinking into hell.

How can we trust the Bible is accurate?
The Dead Sea Scrolls
"The greatest manuscript discovery of all times."

By William F. Albright

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) at Qumran in 1949 had significant effects in corroborating evidence for the Scriptures. The ancient texts, found hidden in pots in cliff-top caves by a monastic religious community, confirm the reliability of the Old Testament text. These texts, which were copied and studied by the Essenes, include one complete Old Testament book (Isaiah) and thousands of fragments, representing every Old Testament book except Esther. The manuscripts date from the third century B.C. to the first century A.D. and give the earliest window found so far into the texts of the Old Testament books and their predictive prophecies. The Qumran texts have become an important witness for the divine origin of the Bible, providing further evidence against the criticism of such crucial books as Daniel and Isaiah.

Dating the Manuscripts
Carbon-14 dating is a reliable form of scientific dating when applied to uncontaminated material several thousand years old. Results indicated an age of 1917 years with a 200-year (10 percent) variant. Paleography (ancient writing forms) and orthography (spelling) indicated that some manuscripts were inscribed before 100 B.C. Albright set the date of the complete Isaiah scroll to around 100 B.C.�"there can happily not be the slightest doubt in the world about the genuineness of the manuscript."

Archaeological Dating
Collaborative evidence for an early date came from archaeology. Pottery accompanying the manuscripts was late Hellenistic (c. 150� 3 B.C.) and Early Roman (c. 63 B.C. to A.D. 100). Coins found in the monastery ruins proved by their inscriptions to have been minted between 135 B.C. and A.D. 135. The weave and pattern of the cloth supported an early date. There is no reasonable doubt that the Qumran manuscripts came from the century before Christ and the first century A.D. Significance of the Dating.

Previous to the DSS, the earliest known manuscript of the Old Testament was the Masoretic Text (A.D. 900) and two others (dating about A.D. 1000) from which, for example, the King James version of the Old Testament derived its translation. Perhaps most would have considered the Masoretic text as a very late text and therefore questioned the reliability of the Old Testament wholesale. The Dead Sea Scrolls eclipse these texts by 1,000 years and provide little reason to question their reliability, and further, present only confidence for the text. The beauty of the Dead Sea Scrolls lies in the close match they have with the Masoretic text�demonstrable evidence of reliability and preservation of the authentic text through the centuries. So the discovery of the DSS provides evidence for the following:

1) Confirmation of the Hebrew Text
2) Support for the Masoretic Text
3) Support for the Greek translation of the Hebrew Text (the Septuagint).

Since the New Testament often quotes from the Greek Old Testament, the DSS furnish the reader with further confidence for the Masoretic texts in this area where it can be tested.

here is another article...

The Bible Stands Alone
Compiled by Jordan and Justin Drake

In 1889 a schoolteacher told a ten-year-old boy, "You will never amount to very much." That boy was Albert Einstein. In 1954 a music manager told a young singer, "You ought to go back to driving a truck." That singer was Elvis Presley. In 1962 a record company told a group of singers, "We don’t like your sound. Groups with guitars are definitely on their way out." They said that to the Beatles. Man is prone to make mistakes. Those who reject the Bible should take the time to look at the evidence before they come to a verdict.

1. It is unique in its continuity.
If just 10 people today were picked who were from the same place, born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made about the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible stands alone. It was written over a period of 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony. They wrote in dungeons, in temples, on beaches, and on hillsides, during peacetime and during war. Yet their words sound like they came from the same source. So even though 10 people today couldn’t write on one controversial subject and agree, God picked 40 different people to write the Bible—and it stands the test of time.

2. It is unique in its circulation.
The invention of the printing press in 1450 made it possible to print books in large quantities. The first book printed was the Bible. Since then, the Bible has been read by more people and printed more times than any other book in history. By 1930, over one billion Bibles had been distributed by Bible societies around the world. By 1977, Bible societies alone were printing over 200 million Bibles each year, and this doesn’t include the rest of the Bible publishing companies. No one who is interested in knowing the truth can ignore such an important book.

3. It is unique in its translation.
The Bible has been translated into over 1,400 languages. No other book even comes close.

4. It is unique in its survival.
In ancient times, books were copied by hand onto manuscripts which were made from parchment and would decay over time. Ancient books are available today only because someone made copies of the originals to preserve them. For example, the original writings of Julius Caesar are no longer around. We know what he wrote only by the copies we have. Only 10 copies still exist, and they were made 1,000 years after he died. Only 600 copies of Homer’s The Iliad exist, made 1,300 years after the originals were written. No other book has as many copies of the ancient manuscripts as the Bible. In fact, there are over 24,000 copies of New Testament manuscripts, some written within 35 years of the writer’s death.

5. It is unique in withstanding attack.
No other book has been so attacked throughout history as the Bible. In A.D. 300 the Roman emperor Diocletian ordered every Bible burned because he thought that by destroying the Scriptures he could destroy Christianity. Anyone caught with a Bible would be executed. But just 25 years later, the Roman emperor Constantine ordered that 50 perfect copies of the Bible be made at government expense. The French philosopher Voltaire, a skeptic who destroyed the faith of many people, boasted that within 100 years of his death, the Bible would disappear from the face of the earth. Voltaire died in 1728, but the Bible lives on. The irony of history is that 50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society moved into his former house and used his printing presses to print thousands of Bibles.

The Bible has also survived criticism. No book has been more attacked for its accuracy. And yet archeologists are proving every year that the Bible’s detailed descriptions of historic events are correct.

Contradictions in the Bible—Why Are They There?

The Bible has many seeming contradictions within its pages. For example, the four Gospels give four differing accounts as to what was written on the sign that hung on the cross. Matthew said, “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (27:37). However, Mark contradicts that with “The King of the Jews” (15:26). Luke says something different: “This is the King of the Jews” (23:38), and John maintains that the sign said “Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews” (19:19).

Those who are looking for contradictions may therefore say, “See—the Bible is full of mistakes!” and choose to reject it entirely as being untrustworthy. However, those who trust God have no problem harmonizing the Gospels. There is no contradiction if the sign simply said, “This is Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews.”

The godly base their confidence on two truths: 1) “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16); and 2) an elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included seeming contradictions in His Word to “snare” the proud. He has “hidden” things from the “wise and prudent” and “revealed them to babes” (Luke 10:21), purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27).

Having a seminary degree is no guarantee of orthodoxy. I have many untrained young people who come on here who are very knowledgeable of the Bible. How can they be? Because the Bible says he has hidden things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. It is having faith in God and in His Word that Scripture is revealed. But for the wise and self-righteous person, it is hidden. Maybe that explains why the commenter and many others eyes cannot see the Truth of God's Word. What it will take is for them to deny self, humble themselves before God and repent. We will continue to keep them in our prayers that they will seek wisdom and repent of their sins and put their faith and trust solely in Jesus Christ to save them.

It really is scary to see what is being taught to people regarding God and His Word. Is it any wonder why our churches are being filled with false converts?
(articles were taken from the Evidence Bible)

21 comments:

Tim Brown said...

Over the years, I've generally noticed that those who argue against inerrancy tend to use the parts of the Bible they don't like as examples of "mistakes".

You have to wonder how this individual can tell the difference?

It turns the Bible and "Faith" into subjectivism. There is no real authority, just pick and choose.

A while back I did a short piece on inerrancy as a response to Islamic attacks on the authority of the Bible. It was an odd experience because Mohammad testified to the accuracy of the scriptures via the Quran. Now, they want to say the Bible "has been corrupted". Funny how they contradict their own Quran. And of course with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls we have, what, 24,000 manuscripts and fragments dated centuries before Christ...which testify to the accuracy of our Scriptures.

The person who submitted this is only 50 or so years behind the times!

Again, my guess is that this person would pick and choose the "errant" parts to tailor his faith to his liking. That is usually how it goes.

And their attitude in a conversation is generally "I can't hear you as long as you disagree with me".

Tim Brown said...

I wonder, if this person can't trust the Bible, is he trusting his senses?

Nator said...

Since I know that you are not going to let me post anything, I won't try and comment on anything you wrote on your last post about my comment. I think it is very interesting however, that you think I am a thorn in the side because I dare to give you food for thought about the Bible and Christianity. If you could get past your talking points and actually read what I am saying, you might not protest so much.

Patricia said...

Tares will grow together with the good seed, (the children of the kingdom - Matt.13:38, Acts.17:29, Gal.3:26, the wheat - Matt.13:30) to the end.

Tares are those Jesus will profess He never knew (Matt.7:23, Lk.13:17); they are Gentiles (1 Thess.4:5, Eph.2:12), Satan’s children (Ps.58:3, Jn.8:37-47, Jn.3:8-10, Jn.3:12, Matt.13:38, Re.2:9).



Patricia (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web

pastorbrianculver said...

Tim and Patricia,
you are both correct! The church is filled with true and false converts. It is a shame that many of the false converts will not even "look" into Scripture to see what it truly says.

Nator,
you said, "If you could get past your talking points and actually read what I am saying, you might not protest so much."

I have read what you are saying. You said that repentance was a "notion" in the bible. I disagree 100% on that. You said the Bible has errors in it. I disagree 100% on that too!
These are not just talking points, if these thoughts came from someone who was not proclaiming himself to be a Christian, I would walk him through it. Yuo claim to be a Christian and you mock the "talking points" that I have given you. Those two points of disagreement are the difference between heaven and hell. I don't want to see you or anyone go to hell. I understand that you have a degree from a bible college. I hope you can understand that having a degree in theology is no guarantee of being saved. You have been trained by a pretty liberal school most likely, don't follow their lead, follow the Bible and God's Word. It is God breathed and inspired and it is 100% accurate without error! What "if" what I am telling you is true? Just "if" I am right on this, you would be headed for hell. It is at the very least something that you and others need to consider. If I am wrong, nothing hurt, but IF I am right, your eternal destination is determined for you. Hell

pastorbrianculver said...

Tim and Patricia,
you are both correct! The church is filled with true and false converts. It is a shame that many of the false converts will not even "look" into Scripture to see what it truly says.

Nator,
you said, "If you could get past your talking points and actually read what I am saying, you might not protest so much."

I have read what you are saying. You said that repentance was a "notion" in the bible. I disagree 100% on that. You said the Bible has errors in it. I disagree 100% on that too!
These are not just talking points, if these thoughts came from someone who was not proclaiming himself to be a Christian, I would walk him through it. Yuo claim to be a Christian and you mock the "talking points" that I have given you. Those two points of disagreement are the difference between heaven and hell. I don't want to see you or anyone go to hell. I understand that you have a degree from a bible college. I hope you can understand that having a degree in theology is no guarantee of being saved. You have been trained by a pretty liberal school most likely, don't follow their lead, follow the Bible and God's Word. It is God breathed and inspired and it is 100% accurate without error! What "if" what I am telling you is true? Just "if" I am right on this, you would be headed for hell. It is at the very least something that you and others need to consider. If I am wrong, nothing hurt, but IF I am right, your eternal destination is determined for you. Hell

Tim Brown said...

"I dare to give you food for thought about the Bible and Christianity."

Nator?

You have nothing new to say.
By the way, Nice try, but zero points. And you wonder why we won't "listen". Wow!

Tim Brown said...

My earlier comment was cut short because I had to help a client out for a bit.

Nator, you say we think you are a thorn in the side because you try to give us "food for thought". You are either self-deceived or being completely disingenuous.

In repeated comments you submitted, you are entirely rude. You have tried submitting comments under a second Blogger name over at my blog. I know it's you from the IP address, system configuration and other information my blog shows me.

As far as conversing is concerned, you tend to do drive-by comments. Rarely do you come back to read responses or interact. Blog records do track what you do.

Your rude behavior at my blog and this one has earned you at least two coveted spots in my "Etiquette 101" post. Look for "Stupid Human Tricks" in this link. And, oh yes, the illustration to the left is included free of charge.

All you care about is creating strife. Period. End of statement.

You are a phony. The company you keep, you seem to keep based on a mutual hatred for conservative Christians and God's Word.

You have nothing new to say. Your hiss is that of your father, the devil.

You offer nothing more than unbelief. No thanks. You have nothing new to say. In fact, if it were new, it's probably a bad sign. God's Truth has never changed.

pastorbrianculver said...

spot on Tim!!!

Tim Brown said...

Brian,

As I mentioned at my blog, I do still pray for him and hope beyond hope that he is not beyond God's grace.

As I mentioned in a thread link two comments ago:

"The devil wants to use you for His own purposes, in part to create strife through deception. He doesn't care how silly he makes you look.

Did the devil die for your sin? No! You owe him nothing! But Jesus DID die for your sin and you owe Him EVERYTHING! So admit your sin to God. Admit you are a bad tree bearing bad fruit!

Repent! Put your trust in Christ!"

pastorbrianculver said...

I pray for him too. There is such a dark side that shows itself through the deception and the lies.

Can you imagine a priest/pastor who has a blog and has no interest in presenting the gospel to people? Do you suppose it is because he does not believe the Bible is inerrant? I wonder how he would respond to what the Bible says about homosexuals?

Tim Brown said...

"spot on Tim!!!"

Do I detect a British accent? Think I'll have a spot 'o tea...

Tim Brown said...

"I wonder how he would respond to what the Bible says about homosexuals?"

Little doubt that the "Priest" we are thinking of would claim that the Bible says nothing of homosexuality, in spite of perfectly obvious passages in the Old and New Testament. I've heard all that nonsense before. I've read articles on Gay Theology. The linguistic gymnastics they go through to get the desired result is simply astounding. There is even an entire "Denomination" (not my description) geared around this. "Billary" Clinton has shown adoration for them.

I would suspect that the person we're thinking of would be rather sympathetic to gay theology, given his reference to "homophobia" as a sin...

Which makes me wonder, "Phobos" means "fear". Not afraid of them. I've known some throughout my life. But they are dead wrong if they think they can do what they want and still enter heaven, any more than they can practice any other sin and still enter the Kingdom.

Then of course are all the incidents of molestation among the "Priesthood".

Again, repentance and faith. And my sin is no better or worse than someone else's. BUT we are called to repentance.

Tim Brown said...

The "lingua franca" of the homosexual movement is the lie. Everything is built around a lie. That there is no sin in the lifestyle. That there is no harm in spreading the lifestyle. That there is no sin about the lifestyle.

It is *the lie* that we are, after all, our own God and can determine truth for ourselves and do as we wish without any fear of penalty. It subjugates scripture to lust. It cheapens life and worships self and its lusts.

It was the sin that brought down Sodom and Gomorrah and it is the lowest rung of depravity listed in Romans 1.

when someone dares to give their testimony of leaving the homosexuality, the outcry against that person by the gays is overwhelming. They cannot allow it to be heard.

Why? Because it would prove the truth of the Gospel, which they cannot accept.

pastorbrianculver said...

For those who follow the universalist idea of faith, they will say that hell does not exist in the sense that sinners will go there. If that is the case, why did Jesus die? Why would Jesus say, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. If people do not need to repent of their sins and still get to go to heaven, then Jesus dying on the cross was all for nothing.

No, Jesus died and the only ones who will go to heaven, and remember, the road is narrow and few will find it, (unless of course you don't believe the whole Bible to be without error!) will be those who repent of their sins and put their faith and trust in Jesus to save them. There is a book out there that promotes false teachings. Yes, I said, it, it promotes FALSE teachings! It is called, If Grace is True. It is written by a couple of Quakers.

this is what they believe...
"The belief in a literal hell, where people suffer eternally, has often been used by the Church to justify hate and violence, which contradict what Jesus taught about love and grace. The authors present a new vision."

And there are pastors and supposedly trained people on the Bible who believe this garbage.

Hell does not justify hate and if someone does that, they are not saved themselves. Hell is a real place described in the Bible as a place for unbelievers and those who practice iniquity (lawlessness). Before you put your faith in these guys, be sure you study your Bible and see what it really says biblically! Reading books by people who are not saved, will only help you dig your own hole deeper and make it harder for you to get out.

The lie of homosexuality is much like the lie of liars and adulterers, the lie of murderers and people who hate, it is the same lie that comes from the father of all lies, the Devil.

If you promote the acceptance (as in "allowing" people to continue living in their sins) then you are no better than the guilty person.

Read the Bible.
Repent and put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone to save you. Yes, He loves you so much that he sent his Son to die on the cross for you. What wonderful grace! But you will miss out on that grace if you continue living in your sins. Continue being immoral, continue lying, continue stealing.

The title shouldn't be, If Grace is True. It should be...
If God is True
then you had better be ready to give an answer for your faith!

Tim Brown said...

One of the blogs mentioned by our troubled trio was, I believe, "of course, I could be wrong".

That would be something tragic to be wrong about wouldn't it?

Nator a Universalist? Nah....you don't think so do you?

You know, I would have a lot more respect for someone who at least has the backbone to force poison down my throat than the filthy sort that tries to sneak it past your mouth.

It takes little backbone to be a sneak. Any coward can be a sneak. There is no honor in cowardice.

Doorman-Priest said...

Pastor Brian,
My Bishop has asked me to deliver again the Lent 1 sermon you commented on on my blog.

Following bits of conversation we have had here and on my blog, with your permission, I'd like to incorporate one or two of your paragraphs on judgement and separation.

It is also very encouraging to know one is being upheld in prayer and I thank you for that.

On that topic I have two very specific prayer needs just now and I would appreciate your communitiy's support if that isn't presumptuous. My friend and former priest Anne is having a cancer related hysterectomy today and I would pray for healing and wholeness, for symptom management and pain relief and a good prognosis.

I would also ask you to pray for a resolution of the funding crisis which threatens to cut off my theological training. God's calling, tested and confirmed by the church and no money for academic fees. Its a hard one!

Thank you.

pastorbrianculver said...

She will most definitely be in our prayers. Cancer is such a terrible disease and can be very frightening for the individual as well as for their family members. They will all be in my prayers.

As for the funding for schooling, I can relate with you on that one. It can be stressful, to say the least on how the funds will become available. I truly believe everything is in God's timing and so long as what we are doing is in God's will, He will provide a way for us. You will have my prayers on this as well.

I guess I am a bit skeptical as to how you plan to use what I had written before. If it is in line with your sermon notes (and not derogatory), then yes, by all means use it.

I have seen the site you warned me not to go see or to comment on. Don't have to worry there. Too much ideas and not enough Bible reading being done! The bible tells us who will be heard by God and who will not be heard by Him when it comes to prayer.

My prayers are with you and your family and friends. I pray that Anne comes out of this okay with quick healing. Is she saved?

Doorman-Priest said...

My inclusion of your thoughts into my semon would in no way be derogatory, just redressing a balance.

Is Anne saved? Yes, absolutely.

I told you not to go there. I knew you wouldn't like it.

Tim Brown said...

"Having a seminary degree is no guarantee of orthodoxy. I have many untrained young people who come on here who are very knowledgeable of the Bible. How can they be? Because the Bible says he has hidden things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. It is having faith in God and in His Word that Scripture is revealed. But for the wise and self-righteous person, it is hidden."

Thought I'd add some thoughts to this.

Education is not the "cure all" that human society has made it out to be. Education is a collection of facts, which is not guarantee that wisdom has been attained.

While working for my degree, I was actually able to manage making the National Dean's List. This means that I was in the top 1% of all students in the USA during that period of time. I was in that list for three consecutive years. I didn't make it the fourth year because my workload was too light -- too few credits because I had worked ahead during the summers.

Bragging? No. Paul gave his "pedigree" as well, remember? But he finished by saying he "...counted it all as dung..."

Education? Training? Yes, good things. But passing a test, or a series of tests really proves nothing more than a skill at memorization and regurgitation. As one of my professors said, "A degree proves you can learn".

And an ability to learn also means that you are able to learn error.

We are ALL called to be Bereans who "search the scriptures to see..." if what we hear and see and read is true. It all must be viewed through the lens of scripture rightly interpreted.

I think this would be a good time for me to resume my series on Biblical Hermeneutics over at my blog. It never hurts to review. And with the renewed influx of neo-orthodoxy and liberalism in the visible church, which leads to the error of Universalism and all manner of error, I think it would be timely.

Tim Brown said...

Brian:

I think I owe a "thank you" to Doorman-Priest.

After his last disingenuous "dialog" with us, I decided to post an article at my blog about how to deal with trolls.

What Doorman and Co. did while they were playing "let's have a discussion" is help me crystallize how important it is to simply refute the lie with the Gospel.

Well, it seems that it's been picked up by Christian Research Network.
That is great! Hopefully, others will get a firmer grasp on how to use such "discussions" as witnessing opportunities for the truth of the Gospel.

The Lord wastes nothing.