Saturday, February 23, 2008

Doorman Comment -- UPDATE #2

The title of this blog is: time2changechurches. It is meant to get our churches back to preaching God's Word, all of it faithfully without compromise. It is not meant to take what little biblical teaching are found in some churches and to make it worse by ignoring what Scripture says on matters of importance!

The following is a comment I received from a man in the UK who is a "priest." I will warn you now that there is some stuff here that is not pretty to see coming from a "Christian." I will interject my comments in blue print so you can see my responses.
so, here we go...

But of course I only have to justify myself to God, Luke 10:29 says, "But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?" So often when the conviction of God's word strikes our hearts, we try to justify ourselves rather than simply throwing ourselves on the mercy of God and changing our hearts and lives. If the expert who had come to test Jesus had honest motives, Jesus' question, affirmation, and reply would have been enough. But, the expert wanted to look righteous more than he wanted to be righteous. How many times does this pattern of behavior reflect you? Let's realize that we cannot justify ourselves, but can find our righteousness only in God's grace given to us in Jesus Christ. Then let's go out and seek to live his life in the world as we are supplied by the power of his Holy Spirit!

and it does worry me that as neither of you have ever met me you can not know me nor judge me. This is a simple question, but it has the most profound consequences. Can you really tell a tree by its fruit – or was Christ lying? I want to make this as simple as possible. In the midst of a sermon on lawlessness (lawless people are those who hate God and reject His holy commandments) Christ said in Matthew 7:16-20, “You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.” These are profound statements. They press Christians to deal with the reality of judging things to be good or bad, evil or righteous. How do Christians view men? How do they view false teachers or hypocritical church members, as in this context? Christ and His apostles often told us that false teachers plague the church (Matthew 24:11ff; Acts 20:29-30; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 3:1, 4:3). How discerning should we be?

What you also do not and can not know is how far towards the likeness and image of God I have moved since my conversion experience - the new attitude you speak of. All I have to do is look at your comments you post on here as well as your own blog posts to see whether you are in the faith or not. If you were not a professing Christian, I would not be as concerned because I could count it as you being lost, but you profess Christ and yet by the evidence of your blog and comments, the fruit does not match your profession of faith. I challenge you on it, not to condemn you but to shed some "light" on sin. Perfection over night? No, nor within a lifetime, sadly, or I wouldn't be human and subject to the human failings which are sin. Are you really saying that once saved we never sin again. No, as I have told you over and over and over again, we as Christians do sin, but it is an attitude that hates the sin that we do, we do not post it as something to be proud of. I need to tell you that is not the gospel. Judging from your comments and your blog, I will not take your assessment of what is or is not the gospel. I only take what the Bible says. It is the same Bible that you believe in is error and I believe is inerrant.

You do not know what life I led before and therefore how much more into the image of my saviour I have been transformed in the intervening time. I will never be perfect any more than either of you will be. You are right, I do not and cannot know how much you have changed. No doubt you have changed since you first believed. It is a constant growing that needs to be done. But without repentance there is no salvation. I still occasionally use intemperate language when faced with idiot drivers. I know it is a problem which I need to work on in the grace of God and the power of his Spirit through confession and repentance. If you want the evidence to match your words, I might suggest you go back over your other blogs that you have posted and remove any questionable language or topic that is not glorifying to God.

How is any of that different from any of the things you have said? I will prove the difference at the end of this post!

And yet... and yet, somehow I do not conform to an image of the Saved you have, yet you can not tell me why. It is not a matter of an image that "I" have, it is what the Bible says should be evident in the life of a saved person. You will know them by their fruit! In all of your comments that I have disagreed with you on, I have always stated biblically why I disagree with you, and yet, and yet, you have not once given any biblical evidence to support your stance. You say the same things to me and I agree with you. So we are saying the same things and yet you still find a way to disagree with me. We are not even close to saying the same things. The words might be the same but the definition of those words is altogether different! I will disagree with you on anything that is contrary to what the Bible says, because I take it seriously that if I am going to have a blog, I want to uphold biblical truths and not let just anybody make comments that go against the Bible. I do not assume that everyone who comes on here is a Christian. I have seen comments from people on your blog that you claim are Christians and some of their comments are so far removed from being biblically accurate and yet, and yet, you do not correct them. So is it okay to ignore false teachings????? Really, is it okay to ignore false teachings?
What is the chance that this will be published? Yes, you will be happy to know your comment was published. Not in its entirety because the last part was directed to someone else. I am only commenting on the part directed towards me. So for the people reading this, you might wonder why I posted this comment on here instead of in the comments section. Because I want you to see the character of a man professing to be a Christian. He comes to your sites too. Look at what he has posted on one of his blog sites (and he is a man who professes to be a Christian lay minister)

One comment he posted about me was this...
"Go on, tell him evangelicals misinterpret what the Bible says on homosexuality and watch him have a heart attack." Actually Doorman, the Bible says that no homosexual will enter heaven without repentance. That means changing your ways. It means believing what the Bible actually says about it and then doing it no more. That's called being obedient to God's Word. You can't just pick and choose which verses you will believe. If you are living a bi-sexual lifestyle, you need to repent of your sins. Why else would you want to justify this position? We need to be honest, we are doing no one any favors if we ignore the teachings of the Bible.

how about this one in reference to me, found at another site by Doorman...
I think what really angered me was that for the first time another Brother actually seriously questioned my status as a Christian. There appears to be some doubt about whether I am saved.

Really?

Oh well, brothers in arms, or the three musketeers. and he wonders "WHY" I question whether he is saved or not?

and how about this one from Doorman...
Hi, ***: couldn't agree more. I have been enjoying our pincer movement over on Pastor Culver's blog. I suspect T** will never get it. Now for those of you who do not know what a "pincer movement" is, you can click here Now, is he engaged in a battle with me? Only if he thinks he can go counter to what the Word of God says. This should tell you more about the person who is a professing Christian.

"What most of my colleagues and pupils have not sussed is that my infinitely calm, patient and reasonable approach is an act and masks an altogether different alter-ego. For instance when I say: “Excuse me, I’m not asking you to do anything unreasonable and I still need you to get on with your work without arguing. Thank you.” What I really mean is: “Why don’t you just f*ck off, you ignorant, ugly little twat.” (I put the * sign in the word because it is offensive and inappropriate for a man of God to be speaking like this.) Here is another one...

(Sorry luv, come on through. By ‘eck you’re a fat lass aren’t you?) Pete. Didn’t you say ‘e were a sex worker? (You’re new here aren’t you pet? Not from around here? Got any Yorkshire in you? No? Would you like some? Only joking. Ha, ha, ha)
“Did I say who was a sex worker?”
Are you starting to see why I am leery of having him post comments on my site? He comes as a troll to invade your blog and to input his beliefs which are not biblical in hopes of changing your thoughts. Don't let it happen!

“No, Eddie. What I said is: the new lad’s a protestant.”
“I was only asking is all. What’s that then?”
“The lad’s a priest.”
“Jeff? Jeff’s a priest. F*ck me.” Again, I had to input the * sign!

"Too dull for you?" asks a passing moron as if a lack of mayhem was a disappointment." calling people morons, not exactly loving your neighbor is it?

"Poor old Eddie. I think he knew the writing was on the wall when they advertised for Gay Doormen to work a new club - and got them. And they looked more macho than him which is no mean feat."
“I’ve got a d*ck thick as a baby’s arm, me.” has it sunk in yet?

But poor Eddie, bless him, couldn't quite grasp exactly why "F*ck off N*gger. You ain’t coming in here,' might possibly be construed as racist and offensive. I don't care if other people are saying this, it is not necessary to print the whole words on your site. Use some discernment.

“Yeah. Pete said you were sensitive about it. Go on. I don’t know what to say to her.”
“How about “Knee him I the n*ts girl?”
“No seriously though. Surely the Bible says something about bl*w j*bs?”

"Probably Leviticus", I think. sounds like someone is a little obsessed with sex.

“You mean Eddie. Big, fat ugly guy. Ginger, no front teeth, dog breath, thick as pig sh*t. Tattooed neck and a scar on his cheek. Can’t keep his flies done up." are you disgusted yet that a person who says he is a Christian and yet feels like I am judging him. All I am doing is warning him that the real judgment will come from God. He will not weigh your good works with your bad and find you worthy of heaven. He will see your unrepentant attitude and sentence you to hell. I just want you to acknowledge that these comments need to be removed if you want to be taken seriously as a Christian, otherwise, do not ever post a comment on here again.

Here are some comments he has posted.
"I have a very bad case of Driver's Cursing. I remain unconvinced that this on its own would be enough evidence on the judgement day to prove I was not saved when weighed against the other evidence." If I had not seen the other stuff listed above, it would not be a big deal. But when combined with everything else, it just confirms what has already been stated.

"However, I can learn from Ghandi that I need to be more like Jesus and how I live my life must be a positive witness of the faith I proclaim. If it isn't others will look at me and say that they can't see Christ and if his followers can't model something that reflects Jesus, why should they take any notice of what we say?" now go back and look at all of the filthy language that was used and tell me again how that is being a model of Jesus to the lost world! another one on the blog says...

"Most people who visit here are already Christians and I remain convinced that face to face witness is best. I nevertheless pray that those who visit here as unchurched may see through me and my visitors a glimpse of the Gospel." if a person is unchurched and they see the language you have posted on your blogs, again, I fail to see how that glorifies God and how they see the Gospel through you. Actually what they will see is the world within you. You are to be "set apart" from the world!

If the language is not removed from your site, I will not post any of your comments on here again, as I do not want to send anyone to a site that has that kind of disgusting language on it! Many families have children and I would hate for them to come across it and think it is acceptable!

Every morning I pray that I might see God in those I meet and that that they might see God in me. You can see my struggle here. I can tell you, they will not see God in you if you continue living for the world instead of for God! The attitude MUST change and with it comes repentance. You can stop it cold turkey if you really wanted to. Just like homosexuals can stop if they really wanted to. It is about honoring God and BELIEVING His Word and then being obedient to the Word of God!

You are known by the company you keep. Until this person comes to a point of repentance, I would be very careful about letting him post comments on your blog, lest he try the "pincer movement" on your blog!
*********************************************************************************
UPDATE
I received a comment from Doorman even after telling him to not post a comment here again until he repents and removes the offensive language from his site. Hence the term troll.
The right of reply for the character assasination?
I am just posting what you yourself have written down. No character assassination involved.
Well thanks Pastor for the publicity for my blog "***********l". Much of what you accurately quoted was from the mouths of real people in real situations. Thats part of my ministry: to be where those who are not likely to meet God are to be found and this I have done as a doorman the problem is a matter of discernment. As Christians, this kind of language should be offensive to you and it definitely should not be posted.

Note that the conversation about the pupils was merely about what was in my head, not what was said. I have no excuse. I am after all a sinner in and need of forgiveness. We are none of us perfect. that's right, none of us are perfect. The problem is that the foul stuff came from inside your head. That should tell you something about the lack of "change" in your life. I could understand if you posted that stuff before you were saved. But you didn't, you posted it "after" you were "saved." Have you heard the expression, "Garbage in - Garbage out?" It is about what we put into our head will cause us to spew out the very garbage that we are taking in. That is why it is necessary to make a change, to purify and to cleanse what you take in. The only way that can happen is through Jesus Christ. If you have not had a desire to change, then that is just more evidence of not being saved. You should not only desire to no longer speak like that, but you should see continual improvement each and every day. Asking for forgiveness should come immediately after committing the sin!

The pincer movement was a throw away comment on having met two other folk on your blog who were posting much the same ideas as me. There was no concerted plan. it still shows what is in the heart! And it also shows when I check who has been to my site and I see your friends come on here within a few minutes of you almost every time!

My blog is a learning journal for my thoughts, to chart my progression and development. some of that would be better served to be kept private. Other people do not need to see the language you have on there.

I still say that you do not know me well enough to make any judgement at all. You do not know me at all. If I witness a man robbing a grocery store, I think it is safe for me to say, "that man is a robber!" If someone kills someone and I came across the evidence, I would call him a murderer. You have posted things that are disturbing to me as a Christian. How many times do I have to tell you, "I" am not judging you. It is God's Word that is convicting you. Will you accuse God of character assassination when he points out your sins to you? All I have to go by is the Word of God. HE IS THE WORD! I might not know you, but he knows every hidden thing you have ever done and unless you repent, you will perish. To perish means you will go to hell. That should bother you, but I can tell by your responses it doesn't!

What worries me is the lengths you have gone to "unmask" me today. we are told in the Bible to expose false teachers, false prophets! Not a pretty sight when you look at it like this, is it?

You must feel very threatened. I have God's Word in front of me. I fear no man! The fact that you persist to try getting in your points of view, shows me that it is you who feels threatened. Because you know that what I am saying shows you are condemned to hell if you don't repent!

BTW: **** surgery was very successful and the prognosis is good. Thanks for your prayers. I am thankful the surgery went well. That is good news!
*************************************************************************
Check this out, I received a comment from Susan, who originally posted as what?, she is a wife/ex-wife of a friend of Doormans.
Guys, I see nothing but pure venom in this post. Brian and T**, it seems to me you are so busy preparing your rebuttle you're not hearing what Doorman is trying to say. As for pure venom, it is amazing that you consider Scripture to be venom. As to not hearing what Doorman is trying to say, I would say it is the other way around. We are trying to help him understand that he needs to repent of his sins. I hold no animosity towards Doorman. I am sure he is a nice guy. I am concerned for his salvation. That is what someone who cares about his neighbor should do. If an attempt to have someone re-examine their faith to make sure they are truly repentant makes me out as venomous, then I am sorry you feel that way. But I will not have someone come on my blog and accuse me of being venomous, so with that, please refrain from posting comments on here again. He was told that he would not be able to comment without repenting and removing the offensive language (of which you seem to have no problem with).

Doorman, why are you feeding the fire when you know they have no desire to hear you out? Doorman, you know your conscience is talking to you. You admitted yourself that you have "no excuse" for the language you used. You can read all of what you yourself have posted above. You are right when you say you are a sinner, but you need to stop trying to justify yourself and just admit that you have sinned against God and God alone have you sinned. Then repent. That is all God is asking of you.

All the trees appear to bear fruit, but it's starting to smell rotten. the key word is "appear" to bear fruit. But when someone has not repented of their sins, they lack the fruit of repentance given by the Holy Spirit. And you are so right Susan, when the fruit of repentance is not there, it does make the professing "christian" smell rotten!

You guys need to agree to disagree and walk away! Well, I am not walking away from my own blog. I hold the Bible as the standard to live by. God's Word is what I will agree on. I will not agree to disagree when it comes to what the Bible says. If someone is going to come on my blog and try to spout out unbiblical heresy, I will not just turn the other cheek. I will 100% of the time confront them on it. Because I do not want anyone to go to hell. Satan would consider that to be a bad thing. But any TRUE Christian would see that it is the loving thing to do so a person can have time to repent before it is too late.

I have heard of trolls, what is the female version of troll? a trolless?

30 comments:

Tim Brown said...

Yup. I immediately trash his comments at my blog for the same reason: his blogger name links to his profile and therefore to his blogs where all this trash is.

It's not a matter of being "judgmental". It's a matter of being able to discern what kind of tree you have in front of you by looking at the fruit growing on it.

If I see apples, it is an apple tree. If I see oranges, it is an orange tree. If I see something else, it tells me what kind of tree it is.

Jesus cursed the fig tree because it wasn't bearing fruit. It was like Israel at the time; a profession but nothing real going on. His cursing the fig tree was an illustration of the judgment of Israel.

What we have here in Doorman isn't even a tree. It's a garbage truck.

Jessie said...

Yeah, but you totally took all that out of context.






*insert sarcasm somewhere at the beginning of that comment*

But if memory serves me right, someone said that the last time you did something like this.

Anyway, great post, filled with so much truth! (Well, minus all the "other" comments...)

pastorbrianculver said...

Jessie,
You totally got me with the way you spaced your comment. very funny!

Tim Brown said...

Meanwhile, news of his "pincer movement" spreads...

Jessie said...

Haha, sorry about that! I figured it would :)

Tim Brown said...

Whenever these types defend themselves, this verse would apply...

From John 3:

"19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God."

That is God's judgment, not ours...

Tim Brown said...

"throw away comment"

He should throw away more of his comments...and posts...

michelle said...

pincer movement? how do you do that on a blog? all I got was the whole movement of armies thing...

pastorbrianculver said...

the idea Michelle is that they would purposefully attack whatever you are writing about. Whether they agree or not, they are going to mock it to keep you off your focus. It is a childish game and an immature attitude!

Tim Brown said...

Yes, I think "trolless" is better than "trollette"...

Tim Brown said...

This "Susan" really thinks you spend that much time preparing rebuttals? Wow.

I'd say you are being brief!

As for "Venom", all you have done is posted what he said on his blog, which is public access, and commented on it from Scripture.

It's generally understood that if you don't want what you say to be spread out there, don't put it there in the first place.

All you are doing is comparing what Doorman & Co. do and shedding the light of scripture on it.

Venom would be something like "You filthy dirtbag". According to Miriam-Webster (www.m-w.com) "venom" is defined as "Ill will" or "malevolence". We wish Doorman % Co. no ill will and we are not malevolence toward him.

We're just sick of the games and fakery. And, as has been demonstrated from his own blog and others, he is faking it. Saying one thing at his blog about being "banned for no good reason", all the while discussing strategy (oh yeah, he now says it was a "throw away comment" how convenient!) on another.

Very dishonest.

No, we don't wish Doorman ill will. This is not malevolence.

He's either deceiving himself or purposely deceiving others.

michelle said...

well it must be quite a compliment to your blog then because if it's making the enemy mad, you know you must be doing something right... one of my pastors said, "if you get up in the morning and you don't meet the devil, you're going the wrong way." I believe it is so true! Thank God you are going the right way!

stella said...

i couldnt even read that stuff...those comments are the most filthy things ive seen in a long time...and we have pornography in our daily local newspapers everyday...

that says a whole lot.

pastorbrianculver said...

those comments do not look like they came from a Christian do they? Now you know that if he or others like him come to your blog to post something, you know where they are coming from!

Jfranklin6 said...

"if you get up in the morning and you don't meet the devil, you're going the wrong way."

I like that.

Now I am a truck driver, I know the temptation of wanting to scream through your windshield. Problem is that it is sin. If you hate your brother or call him a fool, you are in danger of hellfire.

How can I then give "@#$& ??!!, #&*^$^!!" to someone out of my mouth and then say, "How dare you say I AM NOT Christlike?" and then add,"You pharisee!"

I was like that for a while, mind you. But I was wrong. Pray for Doorman.

pastorbrianculver said...

Believe me, I do pray for him. People are quick to say terrible things about me, and I can take it, so long as it brings about change in this man, it is worth having stones thrown my way!

Question of Identity said...

Thanks for this Brian.

I am appalled at the content that you have reported is on Doorman's blog, though not entirely surprised. There are a large number of Anglican priests in my country that believe that swearing and sexual inuendo is fine.

Indeed I left a church because the new minister was constantly swearing and making crude jokes. He once made a crude comment to my wife about a wet t-shirt competition. Within a few months of me leaving, he had health problems and had to leave the ministry. Although we have forgiven him, we are still pleased that God has taken him out of ministry.

Doorman Priest has been on my blog on one occasion. He commented:
'I do not think the Bible says what some Christians think it says on homosexuality.' He continued, 'Happy to defend that theologically.'

I gave a detailed explanation as to why he couldn't defend his position Biblically. Notably he didn't actually try to in the end.

Incidently, having gone back to check his details, I see Doorman lives only a few miles away from me. We are however thousands of miles apart in terms of belief.

Before I became a Christian, I too would use an expletive practically every other word, I drunk in excess and I am sad to say I slept around. My life was in a mess. When I found Christ, I can truly say that I found that when 'The Son sets you free - you are free indeed.' (John 8:36)

I too will pray for 'Doorman' that he comes into a life changing, life transforming relationship with the LORD Jesus. That he realises that he needs to put to death his old self and put on Christ. That he meets the real Christ who will set him 'free indeed.'

Brian I am thankful for those Christians who spoke to me the truth in love. I pray that one day Doorman, will be equally thankful for your words, harsh though they may sound to him just now.

Neil

Tim Brown said...

Question of Identity:

Thanks for your testimony. God can certainly set us free from all manner of sin and filth. Doorman need be no exception, by the mercy of God.

And thankfully, most all of my experiences with visitors from the UK (to my blog) have been, as you, far more civilized.

pastorbrianculver said...

Roland, your comment was rejected based on being very condescending. It is uncalled for. What you see on this post is a response and a request that Doorman repent of his sins. At no time do I say I am without sin, what I have done is quote Scripture to back up what I say. Does Scripture bother you? We are called as Christians to see if the tree is bearing good fruit or bad fruit. do you find the "F" word as being appropriate for a lay minister to be posting on his blog? I don't. I then quoted Scripture. I never said that I am his judge but I have put it out there that God is the judge. He calls us to repent of our sins. You say you do not see a "light" on a hill with me, I am sorry you feel that way. I have acknowledged that Doorman is most likely a good man, I do not doubt that at all. I as a Christian brother am asking him to repent so that when the Day of Judgment comes, he will not be found wanting. If you want a definition of the difference between judgment and rebukes, then read my blog that I posted the very next day. He has made a mockery of sin as defined in the Bible, so you had better be sure that I will challenge him on that. As I said before, I will not agree to disagree when it comes to what the bible teaches. He came to my blog trying to spout false doctrine. He got upset when I did not allow it. All he has to do and anyone else who does not like it, is just leave and never return to this blog again. Who is forcing you to come here? Not me. I am wanting to evangelize and reach the lost. I want to get churches to stop ignoring Scripture for the sake of entertaining people from the pulpit. But instead, I am spending my time dealing with trolls who only want to cause trouble. If someone has a genuine question, I am more than happy to answer them. If someone wants to disagree, that is okay, just don't come on here and try posting things as biblically true when they are not. Just leave if you disagree. It amazes me how many people accuse me of judging when they are equally as guilty of doing it. Actually not equally, because I am not judging anyone. I am quoting Scripture in an effort to HELP someone not live in sin anymore. But it seems that some people DESIRE to live in sin as opposed to repenting! Does that get you mad or angry? Then that confirms what you told me then doesn't it?

pastorbrianculver said...

Neil, I too am thankful for someone speaking the truth to me! I am thankful that you had the same experience and have been blessed. I know it is your desire to see lost people come to Christ too. hey, there might be a good witnessing opportunity for you over there, huh???

Question of Identity said...

Yeh there is plenty opportunity to witness to my fellow ministers. At college we had the same problems, the common room was blue! I always got into troubles by speaking up then, but will always continue to pint out that - swearing clearly is dishonoring to God! Anyone who claims to be saved and refuses to follow God's word is deceiving themselves. No one says 'No' to their Lord.

L P Cruz said...

Hmm, I do not think you appreciate the cultural aspect of British humor. Doorman-Priest as a typical British does a bit of sarcasm and some parody. I sometimes think you are not taking the cultural aspect of how he presents things in your equations.

You guys seem to be quite sure and are able to analyze one's fruit and inspect it so I am wondering about what you guys think of Romans 7. Would you consider that St Paul was speaking of himself BEFORE he became a Christian in Romans 7 or AFTER?

LPC

pastorbrianculver said...

LP,
I have copied your comments here and will put my comments in parenthesis ().

Hmm, I do not think you appreciate the cultural aspect of British humor.

(I saw enough Benny Hill when I was a child to last me a lifetime!)

Doorman-Priest as a typical British does a bit of sarcasm and some parody.

(Unfortunately, he does what so many "typical" Christians do to. He lives for the world and not for God by the language he uses!)

(Here is the definition of sarcasm 1. A cutting, often ironic remark "intended to wound".
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is "intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule". -- that hardly sounds very Christian to me. If he wants people to see Christ living in him, then making remarks to ridicule, wound or be the butt of contempt is hardly the way to do it.)


I sometimes think you are not taking the cultural aspect of how he presents things in your equations.

(you know there was another culture found in the Bible. It is found in Genesis 13, "But the men of Sodom [were] wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." It was the "culture" to be sexually immoral and impure. What did God do to that city? Just because something is considered to be "cultural" does not make it right in God's eyes. We are to be "set apart" from the world. Again, if someone wants others to see Christ in them, they will see Him if they do the things of Christ and not of the world. Using foul language is not of God, it is definitely of the world. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see bad fruit and the Bible says that a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. Sure Christians sin, but they repent of their sins immediately. Doorman has not repented. How do I know? One sign is that the bad language is still on his blog. he still wants to be pleasing to the world because he does not want to give up that part of his life. To be set apart for Christ means dying to self. Until he or others do that, they cannot know God. They do not know God!)

You guys seem to be quite sure and are able to analyze one's fruit and inspect it

(we are called to do that. We are not to judge the world, but we are to make sure that people professing to be Christians have fruit worthy of repentance!)

so I am wondering about what you guys think of Romans 7. Would you consider that St Paul was speaking of himself BEFORE he became a Christian in Romans 7 or AFTER?

(I have to ask this...
are you trying to find a way to justify sin? Paul knows he sins, but the difference is he HATES IT! It bothers him so much, he repents and follows Christ. You would understand this better if you went all the way back to Romans 1 and read everything in context. The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" Romans 1:18

Romans 1:23 says, "And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man"

Romans 1:24
"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:"

Romans 1:25
"Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator"


Romans 1:27
"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Romans 1:29
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers"

Romans 1:30
"Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents"

Romans 1:31
"Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful"

Romans 1:32
"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

It is Scripture that leads me as a Pastor to preach in season and out of season as commanded. Scripture seems to be pretty offensive to some people who want to justify a man rather than glorify the One and Only GOD who is Holy!

It is sad to think there are other pastors out there who will rally behind a sinner instead of stand up for the Word of God so that a sinner can come to repentance. As a pastor we will be judged in a more strict sense than others, so when you are denying Scripture in favor of not hurting a sinner's feelings, you will be held accountable!
What standard to you follow?)

L P Cruz said...

Brian,

I read his post and he made confessions of his weaknesses, i.e. his sin. He shared what went on in his mind, for example. They are equally sin the same way that pride and covetousness is.

I understand your being offended by the rude words but your judging him on the actuals may not be accurate.

So in your view a Christian is no longer a sinner, every sin has already been overcomed when one is born-again, there should be instantaneous sanctification specially in the area of unwholesome speech?

His level of sanctification is not at par with yours, so he is no longer a Christian?

You might have given scripture but in reality you are using your standard to judge him and your gauge is your level of sanctification. IMHO he does not have the same notion of being "nice" compared to yours.

I am quite disappointed that I did not get an direct answer to my question on Romans 7.

So please I am trying to understand your doctrine, you are being defensive in insinuating I am promoting sin simply because I am asking for your position on this chapter of Romans.

There is are a few things that Christians should repent of -- that includes smacks of Phariseism.

So I have another question - is the Good News your view about being born again? The entry to becoming good people?

Sin is found in our words in our thoughts and deeds.

So it is a wonder, who is the one in real danger... the one who thinks he is ok with God or the one who thinks he does not measure up and in despair?

Thanks,

LPC

pastorbrianculver said...

I will speak to one point at a time. I am working so I will take the first part.

just "confessing" sin is not enough.
How hard is it to hit the "delete" button on a blog?

Tim Brown said...

LPC:

Romans 7 does indeed refer to a person who struggles with sin.

Which takes us back to our original point, doesn't it?

A real Christian will be fighting against sin, not posting it for the world to see. The true Christian will fight against the thoughts he has, not put them on display.

What we see here is not "woe is me, who will free me from this body of sin and death", but an attitude of "hey, I sin. We all sin. Here's my sin. Read my sinful thoughts, I've put them out there for anyone to read..." including any kids that might come along.

The point:

This person is claiming to be a Christian, no? Doorman openly supports the gay lifestyle no? But "aye, and here's the rrrrrrub!"! The Scriptures condemn the lifestyle. Yet he, while professing to be a christian, has no problem with this.

If someone is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, this will be a problem to them. There will be conviction of sin. There will be conviction of sin over this position and other personal sin. Don't think so? The writer of Hebrews tells us that God will discipline those who belong to him. That means conviction of sin. If there is no conviction of sin (chastisement from God) then the person, according to Hebrews "is a bastard, not a true son" per the KJV.

Here's a question for you...weigh your answer very carefully. Do you believe that the Bible teaches that a person can live in a pattern of habitual continual sin and still be "born again"?

Tim Brown said...

LPC said:

"Hmm, I do not think you appreciate the cultural aspect of British humor."

Oh yes. "Are you being served?" and all the other junk. It's on public TV here. Too bad I can't keep my tax money from supporting this.

That's why I don't watch public tv. Drivel. I don't appreciate it. It's trash.

Now, back to the question at hand. Are you saying that a person can live in habitual unbroken sin and still have a legitimate right to be called a Christian?

pastorbrianculver said...

thanks Tim, I was going to reply but would not have been able to spend any time until after lunch!

Tim Brown said...

Glad to help, Brian. You're being much more gracious about this than I would. I'd just trash the comment and move on. There is no end of those who would defend this.

pastorbrianculver said...

to the trolls coming to this site to call me and others self-righteous pharisee's, you no longer have a voice here. Go away and play somewhere else. If you want to have a discussion without calling me names or accusing me of being righteous (of course, not God's righteousness), then you can leave. Like I have said before, no one is forcing anyone to come to this site. Why do you bother? Go visit people you do agree with. you will not change anyone's mind on here because you will not be given a voice to share your unbiblical views. You don't believe in sin and hell, and judgement and righteousness and repentance. That is on you to take up with God some day. No more trolls will be allowed to comment on here. I will reject every troll comment that comes here. Don't even waste your time here. I see how often you visit here and I know you are wanting to stir up trouble. Don't waste your time! Go home and read your Bibles!

I apologize to the other readers who have to put up with trolls, I am sure you have them on your sites too. Please bear with me as I gradually remove their comments on a daily basis! thank you for your patience!