Thursday, January 17, 2008

Maybe a visual lesson is needed!

zo nr;obr yjsy zkrdid od yjr Dpm pg Hpf smf yjsy pmr fsu zo eo;; nr om jrsbrm eoyj zjo,/ Frst Hpf. [;rsdr gpthobr ,r pg s;; ,u domd/ zo ;pbr upi smf zo lmpe yjsy upi d[rsl yjtpihj ,pfrtm fsu [tp[jryd/ S,rm/

Above is what God hears from a Mormon
Below is what Mormons are saying to God

I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that one day I will be in heaven with Him. Dear God, please forgive me of all my sins. I love you and I know that you speak through modern day prophets. Amen.

Why is there a difference between the two? I moved my hands to the right one spot, so instead of starting with fingers at "F" and "J", I started them at "G" and "K".

Why did I do this?

Many people want to say they are a Christian, they say they believe in Jesus, but when the Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible and is, in fact, a different Jesus, then that "one" difference makes everything wrong. When they say they are praying to God for forgiveness of their sins, when they say they are bearing "good fruit" as a sign that they are Christians, they are wrong. They might "do" good things, but they have not been forgiven of their sins, so they are still a slave to their sins and they will die in their sins. God's wrath is going to come down on them when they die.

I am a "fan" of baseball (without steroids!) and in my office is a "fan" because it gets hot in here. Suppose someone wants to ask the fan a question...

who or what should that person ask their question?
Obviously, they need to ask me, the "fan" of baseball, and not the "fan" blowing air in my office. As a "fan" of baseball, I am the only one of the two who can actually give an answer.

One of the greatest things for me is to hear my grandson say to me, "I love you papa!"
If I heard him say that to some other man, that would not make me feel good and it would not convey the message to me. There are many papa's in the world, but I am the only one for him!

Jesus of the Bible is eternal. He created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. He is our Savior as He died on the cross. His blood is sufficient to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
Jesus of Mormonism is NOT eternal. He is a created being just like his brother Lucifer. He was not there in the beginning and His blood is NOT sufficient to cover ALL sins.

Who are we to pray to? Only one of the two Jesus' can answer prayer. If you claim that you are a Christian because you "believe" in Jesus as the Son of God, that does not help your case. Your prayers are going up to the wrong Jesus (in fact, a Jesus that does not exist). Your Jesus is not able to save you from your sins. Your Jesus will not get you into heaven.

why?

Because the Jesus of Mormonism does not exist. He cannot forgive sins. Only God can do that. When you pray for forgiveness, God does not hear you because you have denied the Jesus of the Bible. You have DENIED HIS SON!

Just living a "good" life, will not get you into heaven. Abstaining from coffee, will not get you into heaven. Having six kids will not get you into heaven. Doing works will not get you into heaven. All of the "things" you do in the name of Jesus, is being done in vain, because the Jesus of the Bible will not listen to you. It is as if you are saying, ";ptf. ;ptf. fofm
y er [tp[jrdu om upit ms,rz' And He will say to you, depart from me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you.

33 comments:

WayneDawg said...

Great post!

Very visual and articulate; this is fast becoming one of my favorite sites to visit.

Thanks!

pastorbrianculver said...

thanks waynedawg! I appreciate it. Hope you are all ready for some cold weather. Sounds like it is going to hit Illinois friday night through the weekend!

michelle said...

you encourage me to be a better evangelist! and i laugh in the face of cold weather!(of course i live in south florida ;)

Question of Identity said...

I can never understand why JWs and Mormons can get past John 20:28 where Thomas gives the highest form of worship possible by declaring Jesus to be 'My Lord and my God!' Jesus' reply is not 'Just a moment Thomas you are jumping out of the frying pan of disbelief into the fire of blasphemy', more-so it was a rebuke - words to the effect of 'how slow you are to believe!' Why can't they see that Jesus here accepts the worship as the one true God?

pastorbrianculver said...

I agree, they don't want to believe in something that is obvious like this, because then they would have to acknowledge that they are in a cult!

pastorbrianculver said...

Michelle,
I am jealous of you! It started out at 28 degree's this morning. Actually not too bad for a winter day. Right now it is pretty windy and the wind chill is getting close to zero degree's. The high temp this coming saturday is only supposed to be 8 degree's! Only two more months till Spring officially begins!!!!!!!!!!!!

j razz said...

Great post Brian. Good visual as well.

j razz

pastorbrianculver said...

Thank you jrazz, you know how they say that some people learn by reading, some by doing and some by seeing. This has two of the elements to learning incorporated in it. If I could only find a way to do all three!!

Jeff Greathouse said...

I can't believe what I just read. So, God (your words) blocks out what some people say and do not listen to them ??

pastorbrianculver said...

Psa 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:

Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.

Jer 11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear [them] in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

Eze 8:18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, [yet] will I not hear them.

Mic 3:4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.

God hears the prayers of the righteous. A person who is unrighteous, will not be heard. If you are a mormon praying to the Jesus created by Joseph Smith, then you will not be heard. If you are guilty of creating a god to suit you, one who looks the other way from sins such as homosexuality, lust, fornication, lying, then you have created a false god and He will not hear your prayers.

You are a minister??

pastorbrianculver said...

if you want to use my words, here they are...

Because the Jesus of Mormonism does not exist. He cannot forgive sins. Only God can do that. When you pray for forgiveness, God does not hear you because you have denied the Jesus of the Bible. You have DENIED HIS SON!

That goes for ANY person who has denied the biblical Jesus!!!

pastorbrianculver said...

better yet, when Satan attacks you, will you fight or lay down to him???

pastorbrianculver said...

Ephesians 6:10-20 tells us, "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should."

Jeff Greathouse said...

I will answer you later on onight or tomorrow. I can see from your post reply in this this post and the fighting post that you love bringing up homosexuality. At least this one includes other sins.

I also see that you love the OT, since none of your scriptures come from the NT after Jesus came to the world and to save us and to fulfill the law.

To answer your questions, which you seem to ask out of schock: Yes, I am a minister - many years of schooling including bachelor and seminary education.

pastorbrianculver said...

I love the whole Bible. The old and the new Testaments! I will be happy to show you New Testament Scripture that talks about homosexuality, lying, stealing, lust, covetousness, etc and what the penalty is for remaining in those sins. If you truly do have many years of schooling as you say, (and just remember, having seminary training is not a guarantee of good teaching and you won't find seminary in the bible) then you will know that without repentance, there is NO heaven for them. So, for those churches out there that cater to diverse groups because they do not want to offend them, they are not really helping them. They are fooling them into thinking they are saved when they are not.

Just also remember that Jesus came to fulfill the Law but he did not come to abolish the Law. Jesus always used the Law when dealing with a self righteous person. So did Paul.

stella said...

To our minister friend,

It sounds as if the OT isn't "relevant" to us as Christians.

Here are some NT reference from the words of Jesus on prayer being heard:

First, let's start with this: Jesus teaches us how to pray in Luke 11:2: To the Father, so that His Kingdom will be advanced on earth as it is in heaven.

This is the motive of prayer: that God would be glorified in everything.

Further in John 15:6-7, Jesus says, "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and castthem into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will and it shall be done unto you." (And since the Word is in us, this is what should be our hearts' cry. Our prays become "God focused" and unselfish).

If we don't abide in Christ, we are separated from Him. He does not hear us! However, if we do, he hears our prayers.

Jesus continues in verse 10, "If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in His love."

Before I go any further, let's take a look at this term "abiding." According to Jesus, it is the "master key," if you will, to prayer being heard.

Abiding means to live in or to dwell in. So, we must dwell within Christ. In addition to prayer being heard by God, the results of abiding in Christ fruitfulness (John 15:4-5), obviously prayer heard as found in John 15:7, peace (John 16:33), new life (2 Cor. 5:17), and righteousness (Phil. 3:9). (Please also see Galatians 5:22-23).

We abide in Christ by keeping God's commandments, and being a living sacrifice (Romans 12:1-2).

When we are not abiding in Christ, we call into a lifestyle of sin (1 John 3:6 and 2 John 9). The result of not abiding in Christ is death (separation/hell) from God (see John 15:6 and 2 Thess 2:12).

Finally, if we are in sin (1 John 3:4 sin is transgression of the Law), we are separated from God. God will have nothing to do with sin (other than judging it). He is holy, righteous and pure and therefore, will not look upon it.

When we are in sin (it doesn't matter what kind or category: sin is sin), we are abandoned by God: Mt 23:38, Acts 7:41-42, and Romans 1:24.

When Jesus was on the cross and he said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Mk 15:34). Forsaken means to give up (something formerly held dear); renounce, to leave altogether; abandon.

God forsakened Christ because Christ had all the sins of the world upon Him. God would not look upon nor hear Him.

So from all this, we can conclude that God does not hear all people. If there is sin that we love in our lives, He does not hear us. And yes, as Christians we still sin...but we hate it, just as God hates it. And then we repent, turn away from it and keep our trust in Jesus, knowing that it's not by our own strength that we are freed from sin.

I hope this made sense, I've been listening to bombs going off since 6 AM. The buddhist try to awake their ancestors every Sunday morning. They need loud drums, horns, firecrackers, and "firebombs" to get the ancestors to "hear" them. They do this for about 9-12 hours almost every Sunday (and less hours during the week).

Jeff Greathouse said...

Pastor Brian:

You do a good job of not answering questions. I applaud you on that ability.

I did not ask for NT scriptures on what you listed. I was asking about God not hearing you when you call out to him .. no matter who you are.

Thanks for letting me know that I will not find seminary in the bible. I think that I will throw everything out in life that is not in the Bible.

On abolishing the Law, we do not have to follow the Law though, where Christ did not instruct.

I am not sure where you are referring to churches that cater; so I will leave that aspect alone.

My motto: welcoming not affirming

pastorbrianculver said...

excellent comment Stella,
You live in a completely different world over there and yet it is not all that different from here. The bobms that go off here are the drunks who are just driving home from being out drinking all night. They wake the dead with their loud, obnoxious talking, their blasphemous attitudes.

Too many churches are scared to wake the dead. They are scared to wake those people up who are sitting in their churches, still living in their sins and the folly that comes with it. Homosexuality is mentioned because they are the ones most trying to change the way churches preach. And in the case of very weak churches, it is working! If their life is not being changed by the Word of God, then that tells me they have either rejected Jesus, OR, no pastor has TOLD them they need to repent or else they will go to hell.

stella said...

The fireworks are still going off and it's nearly 7pm!!! I hasn't stopped!! aahh!!

But I was wondering what you think characterizes a church "being alive." I posted a little idea about it. Today I heard a preacher say that a church is alive when there's clapping, jumping, dancing, etc. I was really taken back by it...

pastorbrianculver said...

as far as seminary goes, there are some really good ones out there. Master's Seminary is a great one from John MacArthur. There are also some loony ones that teach some very radical and unbiblical things. Bethel Seminary, I would not recommend, I also would not recommend Yale (since it was Yale professors who wrote up the Pact with the Muslims)

okay, you do not have to follow the Law in the sense that it will get you to heaven. Because that would be "works" based. But the Law is still important. If I see Jesus using the Law, then you better believe, I am going to use the Law when dealing with people.

sure, everyone is welcome to come to church. We are all sinners. But when it gets to a point where the pastor is just trying to get "numbers" in a church, and he is willing to compromise the Bible to do it, then that is wrong. There are churches out there who will not preach the Law for fear of offending people.

Here, let me give them to you because it is possible you don't know them.

1. You shall have no other God before me.
2. You shall not make for yourself any graven image (idol worship)
3. You shall not take the Lord's name in vain (blasphemy)
4. Remember to keep the Sabbath Day holy.
5. You shall honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not kill (murder, hate)
7. You shall not commit adultery (or look with lust)
8. You shall not steal (regardless of the value)
9. You shall not lie
10. You shall not covet.

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor 6:9-10

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

and you wonder why I want to warn people (the very people whom you say I hate) about the dangers of hell and the need to repent? Want to know what real love is all about? It's telling people the truth so they will not go to hell.

pastorbrianculver said...

What characterizes a church being alive?
It is not about how large the church is.
It is not about whether the pastors have little goatee's!
It is not about clapping, dancing, and joyful singing.

A church that is alive is one that takes Scripture very seriously.
They practice church discipline.
They preach all of God's Words (not just the ones that will tickle the ears of the listener)
You will see it in the love of the congregation
let me explain that love I am talking about...
yes, they will love each other and they will love all people. We know that God is love. We know that God's Word is True. We are told to fulfill the Great Commission. When you see the members all embracing evangelism and realize that the most important part of having a live church is to have that church actively engaging the community (not with parties and bake sales) but with the Word of God. Reaching the lost the way Jesus did. Going out into the streets with the Word of God. Unfortunately, because of the training and poor leadership skills of many pastors, none of this is happening in the USA. There are some good churches, but with the infiltration of Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Tony Jones, Brian McLaren's of the world, it will continue to go downhill.

Jeff Greathouse said...

Stella:

There are parts of the OT that do not apply to our lives today. There are many laws that simply do not apply to us.

Once again, you guys go a great job of using scriptures for other purposes.

You write the following:

When Jesus was on the cross and he said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Mk 15:34). Forsaken means to give up (something formerly held dear); renounce, to leave altogether; abandon.

I think that you miss the whole point on the importance of the that He spoke on the cross. You have to remember who was at the cross and what happened at the cross. They knew their scripture frontward and backward. Those are the words of psalm 22. When he uttered the words, the whole song would have flooded their head and they would have realized what occurred.

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts.

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.

11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21 Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the LORD’S: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Jeff Greathouse said...

If you do the greatest commandments: love God / love others; you have the 10 covered my friend.

pastorbrianculver said...

and since the Bible tells us that no one is without sin and that if we break even one of the Ten Commandments, then we are guilty of breaking all of them my friend!

stella said...

Jeff, you are so correct! I'm so glad that I don't have to worry about eating goat's meat that has been boiled in its mother's milk when I got out to eat here. (Since goat and goat's milk is very popular here)! Man, I could have been breaking God's laws for years now!

However...

What is the Bible? It's the method that God chose to reveal Himself to us. It's a relevatory book. So, the scripture Brian used is scripture that reveals who God is/what is His character like. Therefore, it applies to us.

As for keeping one commandment and all ten are covered. Go read the sermon on the mound. If you even look upon a woman with lust, you're an adulterer at heart. Jesus didn't say, "hey, but if you love God and your neighbor, then you're covered."

No one has used scripture for other purposes, I take a verse and I study it. And one can make connections between other verses. I don't sit there and say, "how does this apply to my life." I study it historically and grammatically (as much as possible).

Plus, the Gospel isn't for the proud. If you look at who was at the cross, it was the proud. And since you refer to Ps. 22 and said that people would see Christ on the cross and then remember this scripture and realized what occured, WHY DIDN'T THEY? There's no evidence in scripture that they did this (If the centurion and the thief believed that Jesus was God based on Ps. 22 God would have put it in the Bible as such).

We can't make assumptions on God's motives. His motives are clear in scripture. Ps 22 is yet another prophecy about Christ fulfilled.
But remember, the Gospel is not for the proud and arrogant (the ones who knew scripture front and back), but for the humble of heart.

pastorbrianculver said...

that's right stella! good point, I agree 100 percent with you. Hope it is nice and quiet there now!

God bless
Brian

it was 15 below zero today wind chill.

Jeff Greathouse said...

Stella:

I am not sure what the first part of the post is about, but there is biblical evidence to that they knew what occurred - you say they did not:

From Luke:

44It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
47The centurion, seeing what had happened, praised God and said, "Surely this was a righteous man." 48When all the people who had gathered to witness this sight saw what took place, they beat their breasts and went away. 49But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.

The beat their breasts and walked away because they knew what they had done.

I would address other issues that both of you brought up but that is so far off the original topic, I am not sure where to tie it in at.

I do want to clarify that I understand about breaking the commandments, I never once mentioned anything to the contrary.

stella said...

it's like 85 degrees here...i left with my "winter" coat this morning (i drive a motorcycle) and when i went out in the afternoon, i was down to short sleeves!!!

i don't envy you in the least. :)
i also saw that southern states got snow!!! hahahahahaha :)

pastorbrianculver said...

they need to get some snow once in a while, it keeps them humble!

pastorbrianculver said...

Jeff,
I think it has more to do with the fact that you accuse me of hate when talking about homosexuality. I am just as much against all sin, it is just the way the gays are pushing it down the throat of the church and that seems to be one sin that many churches today are turning a blind eye to. So when you come out saying it is hate on my part, it makes it look like you are defending homosexuals and that you would not confront them on their sin. Not to say they can't come to church because they need to be there, but they need to come so they can be transformed and changed and they will see the need to repent of their sins. Otherwise, they will go to hell. So true love says I will risk offending someone because I do not want them to go to hell.

Jeff Greathouse said...

Pastor Brian: i used HATE and captialized because you have used it a few times.

Maybe you do just HATE the sin and not the sinner. But, I do find it interesting that a lot of Christians - point to this sin.

You mention about being "scared". I do not believe that is the case. Homosexuality is on the bottom of the list of sins that people struggle with.

If we in the churches wanted to "be out there" start preaching on greed, jealousy, gluttony and those sorts ... that hits a lot closer to home and to much more people.

pastorbrianculver said...

I don't disagree with that at all. Churches should be preaching against ALL sins! But, like I said, and maybe you missed it, homosexuality is one of the sins that is openly expressed. And for some reason, too many pastors act scared to preach against homosexuality because they fear they will lose members in their churches. So they ignore it and move on to other sins. It seems to be easy for pastors to preach against lying, stealing, murder, covetousness, but when it comes to preaching against homosexuality, they will find an excuse for not preaching against it. Why is that? That is an actual question that I am asking you Jeff. Why do you suppose many churches do not preach against homosexuality? And do you think you would preach against it if a homosexual was in your church? Or if one of the kids in your youth group was gay. Would you tell him he needed to repent or else he would go to hell? How would YOU handle it?

ken scott said...

To Jeff, et. al.:
On one of your Jan 20 comments you have a serious mistake in the wording of Psa 22:21 where you use the word "unicorns". Where does that come from? Unicorns are mythical beasts and the Bible does not deal in mysticism. My Bible says "wild oxen". The entire Psalm 22 is a prophesy about Christ LONG before He appeared as a man. The cross is a most powerful event in human history and it is from the Word of God. When God dealt his death blow of wrath upon His only Son it was His perfect justice fulfilled - Jesus had taken on ALL of our sins and being perfect, God had to punish those sins of man by leaving His Son abandoned on the cross for a time (His time). In spite of this Jesus was still committed to His Father by His last words as a human. He had done and was obedient to what His Father had commanded Him to do.